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TZepeSH
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Voi incerca sa fac aici o sinteza a tot ceea ce a implicat instalarea franelor de Porsche 924S la 1303S. Pe langa ceea ce se gaseste pe internet, mai sunt alte mici chichitze descoperite pe parcurs. De maine incep sa povestesc.
Dar pentru inceput, am o mica problema: imi trebuie pentru cateva zile un set de flanse de la 5x130 la 4x130.
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TZepeSH
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Ok, hai ca am promis ca scriu si pana acum nu am facut nimic. Tutoriale de instalare a franelor de porsche 924S/944 (discuri fata-spate) se gasesc usor pe net.
Pun cu copy si paste de dincolo, cu citat de la Mike.
Porsche 944 brakes fitted to a Volkswagen Super Beetle
Porsche and VW (and Audi) are combined in business and share many parts between the cars. The Porsche 924 was a joint venture between VW and Audi. It was almost to take the slot of the Scirocco in the VW line up; however, it ended up costing too much to build and could not be sold with the VW name plate so Porsche picked up on the project. The car is basically a VW with an Audi motor. The rear suspension was designed after the IRS Beetle. The front suspension is like a 1303 (SuperBeetle) and Golf I (Rabbit). The rear trailing arms and front spindles are the same dimensions as the late model 74-79 SuperBeetle (will be referred to as 1303 here). The 924 features a solid front rotor and rear drum brakes; however, the 944 has vented disc all around. The 944 is the upgrade, by Porsche, to the 924 and has the larger vented disc four wheel braking system. In simple terms, the 944 spindles and rear trailing arms are a direct bolt on to the SuperBeetle. However, the ball joints, tie rods, E-brake cables, axles, master cylinder and brake lines need some modifications to make it work. This article covers how to retrofit 83-85 Porsche 944 brakes to the 71-79 Volkswagen SuperBeetle.
The parts that are needed: late model 74-79 1303 control arms, struts, and sway bar. The front spindles, rear trailing arms and brakes (including hubs) from a 83-85 Porsche 944. These have single piston calipers and vented discs. Please note that the brake conversion will increase the front track by 10mm per side and the rear track by 26mm per side. The wheels will have to be upgraded also to Porsche 5x130 bolt pattern. If you have a 71-73 Super and want 944 brakes then you'll have to retrofit the later 74-79 front suspenion. The benefits of the later suspension is a negative roll radius steering system. Take note that the 73 year model has the early suspension up to 5/73. In order to put the late suspension in the early car you'll need the struts, sway bar, and control arms from the late car. These late struts will bolt into the early body but you'll have to use the early upper strut bearing mounts on the late struts to fit the smaller hole in the early body. The tie rods and steering box are the same type from 71-74 Super. Note: do not use the 944 struts as the 944 spring is 5mm larger than the Super's spring.
Ball joints & Tie rod ends:
The 944 ball joints are 17mm whereas the 1303 are 15mm. The 944 tie rod ends mount to the bottom of the 944 spindle whereas the 1303 tie rod mounts on top. These are the biggest problem areas when doing this conversion. There is no Porsche or VW ball joint to fit this application. Presently, the only source for the correct ball joint with a 17mm diameter is Kerscher in Germany. The tie rods can be mounted with the 944 ends from bottom or using a "bump-steer" kit the 1303 tie rods can be mounted from top or bottom. This kit can be purchased from Topline Parts in California.
Spindles:
The Porsche 944 spindle (steering knuckle) is shaped exactly like the 1303 but there are a few differences. The actual spindle part, that the hub rides on, is about 15mm higher on the 944 thus it will lower the car. Also, due to the design of the flange that bolts to the strut there will be an increase in positive camber by up to 2 degrees.
Porsche specs:
83-85 944
front disc - 11.1" vented rotor
rear disc - 11.4" vented rotor
caliper - single piston floating
Emergency/park brake & cables:
The Porsche park brake is located inside the rear disc. Porsche designed a brake drum inside the disc itself, it works the same as the Beetle. There are a few methods here to make your own or buy a kit. Basically what is needed is the 944 cable ends for the brake shoe connection (outside) and the 1303 cable ends to connect to the hand brake lever (inside). The 944 cable ends can be spliced to the Beetle cable or the Beetle inner cable end can be spliced to the 944 cable. Also, there are aftermarket "Buggie" type cables. However, use what method you feel is best. The Kerscher or MBT kit adapts the Beetle cable to the 944 brake.
Porsche 944 Master Clylinder:
To use the 944 master you need to run new hard lines in the front end due to the fact that the 944 uses two separate lines on the front end. For the rear line you will need to either splice an adaptor for a brake light switch or you can do like I did and just run a whole new hard line to the rear and run a brake light adaptor block such as the one by Neal or by Wilwood. This also gives the perfect opportunity to plumb in a brake balance controller. When running an adaptor block you will need to get adaptor fittings (double flare female to single flare male) from Neal or Wilwood. This is because the adaptor blocks are set up for American single flare brake lines as opposed to the Volkswagen and Porsche double flare. At the same time I made the changeover to the stainless braided lines for better pedal feel.
Also the 944 master doesn't have mounting studs as it is made to bolt to a vacuum booster. To remedy this you will need to find some nice grade 8 or higher in the correct length and fit them with good quality Nylock nuts. It is easiest to run the bolts from inside the car and mount the nuts on the master cylinder side of the firewall. There is no provision for a dustboot on the master where it meets with the rod from the pedal, but this is not a major concern. Also, when changing over the master, make sure not to lose the sleeves which sit in-between the layers of the firewall, if you mount it without these the firewall will flex and deform.
There should be no need for adjustment of the rod from the pedal, but if the clearance on yours ends up being off, then be very careful with the adjustment, as this is important to braking feel. If the front of your car sits considerably lower than the rear, it may be a good idea to plumb in a residual pressure valve (Wilwood) at the master cylinder. Be sure to get the one valved for the disc brake set-up. Notes: MBT sells a proportioning valve and Snap-on tools sells a double flare kit.
Struts & control arms:
VW changed the SuperBeetle's front suspension in mid 73. The late model struts are needed for the conversion. The mounting points on the frame head for the control arms are different between the late and early model; however, the late control arm will bolt into the early mount. The 74-79 suspension will fit into the 71-73 and is required to fit 944 brakes to the early chassis.. If your car was made after August 73 then it is a 1303 and has the correct control arms and struts already.
Rear trailing arms & Axles:
Notice that the rear trailing arms are the same size, shape, and design. All the mounting points are the same between the two cars. Also note that the C.V. joints are larger on the Porsche axle. The whole rear trailing arm does not have to be used, see below.
Take the bushing out of the 944 arm and replace it with the VW one. The 944 stub axle will have to be replaced with the SuperBeetle one, or the outer CV joints on the SuperBeetle axle will have to be replaced with VW Bus or 944 CVs to bolt to the 944 stub axle. The splines on the VW drums and Porsche hubs all fit the stub axles between the models.
It is also possible to just use the Porsche caliper mount and the Beetle rear trailing arm. Replace the VW drums and backing plates with the Porsche discs and backing plates. The only advantage to the Porsche rear trailing arm is that it has more adjustments for the rear wheel alignment; however, the Porsche spring plate has to be used also.
Parts List
This is a list of parts needed to adapt the 83-85 Porsche 944 four wheel vented disc brake system to a 71-79 Volkswagen SuperBeetle. Every situation is different and due to slight model changes by manufactuers your fitment may require a part not listed. However, this list is very acurate and complete:
FRONT-
struts - 113
control arms - 113
spindles - 944
hubs - 944
disc - 944
backing plates - 944
calipers - 944
bump steer kit - Topline Parts
REAR-
hubs - 944
disc - 944
backing plates - 944
caliper mount - 944
calipers - 944
park brake assemblies - 944
park brake cable - 113/944 or MBT (read above)
113 = 1974 - 1979 VW 1303
944 = 1983 - 1985 Porsche 944
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TZepeSH
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ok, pana aici totul e destul de clar. Dar in momentul in care cineva chiar incepe sa monteze aceste frane, apar cateva probleme. Sa incepem din fata spre spate.
Prima problema este legata de unghiul de cadere al rotii (camber). Folosind fuzetele de Porsche roatile nu vor mai putea fi reglate corespunzator, din cauza ca prinderea amortizorului pe fuzeta difera; distanta dintre centrele rotilor masurata in punctul cel mai inalt va fi mai mare decat distanta dintre centrele rotilor masurata in punctul inferior. Daca se folosesc fuzete de 944 dupa 85, apare la amortizor un surub excentric asemanator cu cel de la bratul inferior, deci un reglaj in plus. O alta solutie este folosirea kitului Camber+ de la Topline ), care practic trimite mai spre exterior bratul inferior.
Pivotul este unul special. Are corpul de prindere pe brat de VW 1303 (normal, se vor folosi bratele inferioare de broasca) si capatul care se prinde in fuzeta cu dimensiune pentru Porsche (cel de broasca are 15mm, cel de porsche 17mm). Pivoti am gasit numai la Kerscher in Germania ).
Ultima problema legata de partea din fata este lungimea bieletelor. Acestea trebuie sa fie mai lungi cu 5cm. Eu mi le-am prelucrat singur: le-am taiat la jumatate, am filetat interiorul si am folosit bara filetata (M12 sau M14, nu mai stiu exact) pentru a reuni cele doua jumatati. Bara a fost infiletata 10cm in fiecare parte si apoi am sudat jumatatile de bara filetata. Metoda mai simpla este sa cumparati bielete la dimensiune tot de la kerscher sau la vdubengineering.com.
La partea din spate problema majora care apare este adaptarea cablului de frana de mana. Si aici sunt doua solutii. Varianta Kerscher presupune inlocuirea capetelor dinspre tambur. Se taie cablul la dimensiune si se setizeaza doua capete specifice franei de Porsche. A doua varianta, oferita de vdubengineering ) foloseste cablurile de broasca fara modificari, schimbandu-se elementul de conectare dintre cablu si sabot. Ambele modificari implica si folosirea unor distantiere speciale (camasa de la cablurile de frana de mana de broasca are diametrul mai mic decat gaura din "fuzeta" spate). Distantiere se gasesc la Kerscher si la vdubengineering.
Ultimul lucru la care trebuie sa fiti atenti este conectarea tevilor de frana. Porsche are sistem de franare in X si trebuie instalat corespunzator. Interesant ar fi de instalat un sistem de franare cu ABS... poate gasim pe undeva sau poate merge adaptat (golf2, oare?). Tema de casa.
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TZepeSH
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tot de pe vdub, articol despre adaptarea franelor de porsche la broasca. Intra in detaliu si despre variantele diferite de sisteme de franare.
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TZepeSH
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Revin cu o completare. La montarea fuzetelor de porsche, unghiul de cadere vine mult pe +. pentru a corecta, se folosesc bucse decalate de la topline. dar unghiul tot nu va fi cel corect. solutiile sunt mai multe.
1. se pot ovaliza gaurile de prindere intre fuzeta si amortizor, dar e o solutie proasta pentru ca nu apare nici un element de blocare si unghiu se poate modifica.
2. combinatie de piese: se foloseste teaca amortizorului de porsche cu restul de piese de la broasca. nu ajuta atunci cand se folosesc amortizoare reglabile.
3. suruburi excentrice H&R Triple C, care dau inca +/-3 grade reglaj.
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